I know that this is an open question, but how much (in US$) should I expect to have to spend with a good restoration shop to get a road worthy R27 completely restored (strip and paint frame, re-chrome, electrical work, new tires, etc)? Allan, you might have some experience here?
-- Andrew
R27 Restoration Costs?
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Allan Atherton
Re: R27 Restoration Costs? (Long)
Here is my experience on R27 costs, both to buy and to restore. The word restoration is very subjective. It all depends on how much you want or can afford to do - how perfect you want the bike to be. I got a free basket case, and keeping the perforated tank and fenders, made it into a new bike for about $10000.
1. In Aug 98 I found a seller in Providence who had an R27 that came out of his wife's father's basement when he died. Seller was not a biker, was not sure of its value, had ridden it some, but wife was expecting a baby and said get rid of the bike. It had only 4,000 miles, been covered with blankets in a dry place for years, had a small dent in the fender. He had advertised it locally, asked $4000, had several people look, had refused $2000. Sight unseen, I offered $3200, he said OK, and I sent him a $100 deposit. Before I could get there, he sold it to someone who came with a wad of cash - I got the impression that it was for $4000. I contacted the new owner, who was a BMW collector in Newport, and he said he would trade me the R27 for a mint white R69S, assuming I could find him one. Therefore I place the value of that almost mint, unrestored, low miles R27 at around $8000. One cannot count on ever finding another deal like that one.
2. Hammersley Cycles in VA advertised a mint unrestored R26 for $8000. When I called to ask details, they said they decided to keep it.
3. I called on several used R27s in various places. These were average bikes with various wear and tear and running problems. Prices ranged from $3000 to $4000 but I never went to see them.
4. A person nearby in Indiana had two R26 basket cases. One was very rough, and one was in primer, perhaps with some mechanical work done. He wanted $3,000 for the pair. I did not go see them.
5. A person here in Louisville had a running R27 with 30,000 miles. Some rust, no dents, just rough looking and the clutch felt like something was wrong. I rode it and offered $2200 but it seemed his price was up around $2500 so I did not want it.
6. In Oct 98 I ended up buying a basket case in Lexington, Kentucky for $1500 with some new parts and various manuals. It turned out the parts and manuals alone were worth the $1500. I could not see the basket case too well in the dark basement of the seller. I was told the bike had seized and been abandoned under a beach house on the NC seashore for 10 years, then bought and taken apart for the past 15 years. Two owners had not attempted the restoration. I eventually discovered the cylinder was deeply pitted, the transmission damaged by abuse and botched repairs, the tank and fenders became perforated after beadblasting, and every part was rusted, pitted and rotted beyond use in a truly restored bike. That free R27 finally cost $10000 to restore to new condition. Its sale value is probably between $7-8000, to someone who wants a 100% restored R27 with all the receipts rather than a mint looking unrestored R27 that they are not sure about its history.
1. In Aug 98 I found a seller in Providence who had an R27 that came out of his wife's father's basement when he died. Seller was not a biker, was not sure of its value, had ridden it some, but wife was expecting a baby and said get rid of the bike. It had only 4,000 miles, been covered with blankets in a dry place for years, had a small dent in the fender. He had advertised it locally, asked $4000, had several people look, had refused $2000. Sight unseen, I offered $3200, he said OK, and I sent him a $100 deposit. Before I could get there, he sold it to someone who came with a wad of cash - I got the impression that it was for $4000. I contacted the new owner, who was a BMW collector in Newport, and he said he would trade me the R27 for a mint white R69S, assuming I could find him one. Therefore I place the value of that almost mint, unrestored, low miles R27 at around $8000. One cannot count on ever finding another deal like that one.
2. Hammersley Cycles in VA advertised a mint unrestored R26 for $8000. When I called to ask details, they said they decided to keep it.
3. I called on several used R27s in various places. These were average bikes with various wear and tear and running problems. Prices ranged from $3000 to $4000 but I never went to see them.
4. A person nearby in Indiana had two R26 basket cases. One was very rough, and one was in primer, perhaps with some mechanical work done. He wanted $3,000 for the pair. I did not go see them.
5. A person here in Louisville had a running R27 with 30,000 miles. Some rust, no dents, just rough looking and the clutch felt like something was wrong. I rode it and offered $2200 but it seemed his price was up around $2500 so I did not want it.
6. In Oct 98 I ended up buying a basket case in Lexington, Kentucky for $1500 with some new parts and various manuals. It turned out the parts and manuals alone were worth the $1500. I could not see the basket case too well in the dark basement of the seller. I was told the bike had seized and been abandoned under a beach house on the NC seashore for 10 years, then bought and taken apart for the past 15 years. Two owners had not attempted the restoration. I eventually discovered the cylinder was deeply pitted, the transmission damaged by abuse and botched repairs, the tank and fenders became perforated after beadblasting, and every part was rusted, pitted and rotted beyond use in a truly restored bike. That free R27 finally cost $10000 to restore to new condition. Its sale value is probably between $7-8000, to someone who wants a 100% restored R27 with all the receipts rather than a mint looking unrestored R27 that they are not sure about its history.
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Dave Thomas
Re: R27 Restoration Costs? (Long)
Allen is right: the definition of "restoration" can vary quite a bit. I just finished my R26 restoration, and it was done at the level you asked about:
all sheet metal stripped, primed, painted, new pinstripes. Completely restored mechanically, electrically, etc. All chrome replated, aluminum polished
or glassbeaded, some zinc plating done, stainless steel nuts and bolts, 100% of rubber parts replaced, new "performance" brake linings, new stainless spokes
and nipples, new shocks, speedometer restored. Every single part on the bike was restored or replaced. I haven't totalled the receipts yet, but I think I spent about
$4000 on the restoration. I did all of the disassembly, reassembly, painting and mechanical work myself, and I had the sandblasting, wheel building, machine work
(valve job, cylinder boring) and pinstriping done by others. I originally paid $1000 for the bike, and it had been restored by BMW Motorrad in St. Louis about
15 years earlier. It was very complete, but had been trashed by the previous owner, so it still needed everything. So I've got about $5,000 in it, plus untold but
enjoyable hours in it, and I figure it's worth about $7500 or so.
The singles seem to be slowly appreciating in value. I looked at a very nice original R26 at Bob's BMW about 2 1/2 years ago, and Bob thought it was worth about
$5800 then. If you start with a low-priced bike and do a lot of the work yourself it would be hard to spend too much on the restoration. However, if you have
everything done by others, you could spend more than the bike is currently worth. But in a few years, who knows?
Good luck with your restoration if you choose to go ahead. Let me know if I can provide any information for you.
Regards,
Dave
all sheet metal stripped, primed, painted, new pinstripes. Completely restored mechanically, electrically, etc. All chrome replated, aluminum polished
or glassbeaded, some zinc plating done, stainless steel nuts and bolts, 100% of rubber parts replaced, new "performance" brake linings, new stainless spokes
and nipples, new shocks, speedometer restored. Every single part on the bike was restored or replaced. I haven't totalled the receipts yet, but I think I spent about
$4000 on the restoration. I did all of the disassembly, reassembly, painting and mechanical work myself, and I had the sandblasting, wheel building, machine work
(valve job, cylinder boring) and pinstriping done by others. I originally paid $1000 for the bike, and it had been restored by BMW Motorrad in St. Louis about
15 years earlier. It was very complete, but had been trashed by the previous owner, so it still needed everything. So I've got about $5,000 in it, plus untold but
enjoyable hours in it, and I figure it's worth about $7500 or so.
The singles seem to be slowly appreciating in value. I looked at a very nice original R26 at Bob's BMW about 2 1/2 years ago, and Bob thought it was worth about
$5800 then. If you start with a low-priced bike and do a lot of the work yourself it would be hard to spend too much on the restoration. However, if you have
everything done by others, you could spend more than the bike is currently worth. But in a few years, who knows?
Good luck with your restoration if you choose to go ahead. Let me know if I can provide any information for you.
Regards,
Dave
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Allan Atherton
Re: R27 Restoration Costs? (Long)
More detail on my R27 restoration costs:
Basket case bike with new seat, muffler, hub caps, and various manuals was $1500.
Metal repair of fenders, dent repair of tank, and painting and striping of all three items was $700. Done locally. An out of state dealer quoted $1500 for this.
Restoration of mph speedometer with odometer and making new face was $300, and overhaul of carb was $200.
New parts from Huggett were about $3000. Other new parts from Bobs BMW and Blue Moon totalled about $1000.
Lacing the wheels was about $600 because it had to be done twice. The first time, the chrome came off the spoke dimples, and the spokes touched and bent where crossed.
$3200 went to a restoration specialist for: Straightening frame. Bead blasting and powder coating frame, swing arm, earles fork, and center stand. Painting headlight, battery cover and air cleaner. Replacing steering and swingarm bearings. Replacing motor bearings and seals. Replacing tranny bearings and seals, repairing end of output shaft, and adjusting for bent shifter fork and other damage. Replacing rear drive bearings and seals. Boring cylinder 2.0 mm oversize to eliminate pits. Replacing valves, guides and seats. Final assembly of all parts into completed running bike. His rate was about $30/hour.
The only thing I did was take the shocks apart for refinishing and reassemble them, take the fenders and tank to the body shop, and order all the parts except the motor and tranny bearings. Ordering the parts filled a spreadsheet that is 11 pages long.
Basket case bike with new seat, muffler, hub caps, and various manuals was $1500.
Metal repair of fenders, dent repair of tank, and painting and striping of all three items was $700. Done locally. An out of state dealer quoted $1500 for this.
Restoration of mph speedometer with odometer and making new face was $300, and overhaul of carb was $200.
New parts from Huggett were about $3000. Other new parts from Bobs BMW and Blue Moon totalled about $1000.
Lacing the wheels was about $600 because it had to be done twice. The first time, the chrome came off the spoke dimples, and the spokes touched and bent where crossed.
$3200 went to a restoration specialist for: Straightening frame. Bead blasting and powder coating frame, swing arm, earles fork, and center stand. Painting headlight, battery cover and air cleaner. Replacing steering and swingarm bearings. Replacing motor bearings and seals. Replacing tranny bearings and seals, repairing end of output shaft, and adjusting for bent shifter fork and other damage. Replacing rear drive bearings and seals. Boring cylinder 2.0 mm oversize to eliminate pits. Replacing valves, guides and seats. Final assembly of all parts into completed running bike. His rate was about $30/hour.
The only thing I did was take the shocks apart for refinishing and reassemble them, take the fenders and tank to the body shop, and order all the parts except the motor and tranny bearings. Ordering the parts filled a spreadsheet that is 11 pages long.
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agus putranto
Re: R27 Restoration Costs? (Long)
dear BMW owner or sales manager, before i start this email, i would
like to apologize you if this email seems make you
angry, my name is agus putranto, i would like to offer
you BMW Motorcycle type R27,manufactured 1964, it was belongs to my
uncle, he has pass away a few month ago and
gave his motorcycle to me, frankly i didnt know
motorcycle well , that is why i would like to sell
this bikes, i didnt know about current market prices
for this bikes, so please contact me if you are
interested and i will supply you with everything that
you need (such as photograph and etc information that
you need ) as i could see and test they are still
works and run,have a good original paint, mileage
shows at 27119 thank you and good day
like to apologize you if this email seems make you
angry, my name is agus putranto, i would like to offer
you BMW Motorcycle type R27,manufactured 1964, it was belongs to my
uncle, he has pass away a few month ago and
gave his motorcycle to me, frankly i didnt know
motorcycle well , that is why i would like to sell
this bikes, i didnt know about current market prices
for this bikes, so please contact me if you are
interested and i will supply you with everything that
you need (such as photograph and etc information that
you need ) as i could see and test they are still
works and run,have a good original paint, mileage
shows at 27119 thank you and good day