I am looking to purchase a beautiful 1969 R69S that has been restored. I am looking at the front suspension system and it does not have an Earls type system. I was under the impression that the Earls front suspension was standard equipment. The suspension that is currently on the bike is two front rubber covered shocks or springs that you might find on other model BMW's of the era. Can anyone tell me whether this existing arrangement was factory spec. for Canada or USA. Secondly the seating arrangement is a 50"s style front and back separate (driver and passenger) seats. Not the one-piece vinyl two passenger seat. This person would like to sell me this BMW for $8500.00 CDN. do you think it is worth it? It has been wonderfully restored and runs perfectly. Also the engine numbers and frame match. Thank for all your help. Allan
R69S
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Mark Huggett
Re: R69S
Hi Allan.
It looks as if you have found a R69US. The "US" designation is as you suggested, and American spec machine with teleforks instead of the customery Earls Fork. IF you send me frame/engine number, I can have it confirmed for you.
Price sounds very good.
Best regards,
Mark
Mark Huggett GmbH
It looks as if you have found a R69US. The "US" designation is as you suggested, and American spec machine with teleforks instead of the customery Earls Fork. IF you send me frame/engine number, I can have it confirmed for you.
Price sounds very good.
Best regards,
Mark
Mark Huggett GmbH
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Allan Atherton1
Re: R69S
It is a US model R69S. The so-called US models were made is 1968 and 1969 with telescopic forks that were later used on the /5 models from 1970 onward. The telescopic forks may handle better for sport riding, but are not as comfortable. The US models also do not have sidecar lugs on the frame. The original bench seat no doubt deteriorated and the solo and pillion seats were installed after the restoration. This is common practice as these seats look more "vintage". As to the value of the bike, if it is as good as you say, and the seller as the the bills to prove what was done to it, it could be worth $8,000 US. However, I think the US models are less desirable than the Earle's fork models, and some people think the R69S models are not as desirable as the plain R50-R60/2. I had two R69S and do not care for the vibration damper that is on the front end of the motor. My dampers were no end of trouble, as their rubber inserts would begin to come apart after a few hundred miles.
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Allan Atherton
Re: R69S
Here are my answers that I emailed in response to your email with further questions about this R69S:
Vibration damper: This is a heavy metal disk, like a mini-flywheel, mounted on the front of the generator on the crankshaft. Between the disk and its shaft, there is a special rubber sleeve. The R69S turns more RPMs than the motor was designed for, and the crankshaft flexes. This would tear up the regular roller crankshaft bearings, so the ball bearings on an R69S are spherical instead of round and cost 4-5 times more than plain roller bearings. To further dampen the flexing crankshaft, that rubber mounted disk was put on the front. The
problem is - the rubber does not last long. As it disintegrates, rubber dust gets all over the timing area and could get into the points and stop you. And as the rubber leaves the sleeve, the metal disk becomes eccentric, causing terrible vibrations and beating the front bearing. In the 1960s BMW said to check the damper every few thousand miles, and if it could be turned by hand, it meant the rubber needed replacement. HA! In the 1970s and 1980s on my two R69Ss, the rubbers would only last a few hundred miles. Replacing a rubber was easy - just remove the timing cover and unscrew the damper and take it apart. But if you are on a trip, and you feel the damper vibrating, you wonder when the rubber will get the points, and worry about damaging the bearings. So you have to stop and either put in another rubber if you have one, or take off the damper and leave it off. And if you take the damper off, you are not supposed to use the high RPMs that give the R69S its extra power and speed.
Top end work: Find out exactly what was done. Were the jugs removed, measured for wear, honed, re-ringed? Were the valves replaced, seats, guides? Were no-lead valves and seats used?
Slingers: The bugaboo. Find out if the slingers were cleaned. This requires complete removal of the crankshaft every 25,000 miles. If postponed, unfiltered oil goes onto the big-end bearings of the conn rods and begins to wear them out. It is critical when buying pre-1970 BMWs to know their slinger status.
Leaking carbs: The petcocks should always be turned off when the motor is not running. The carbs will overflow when primed for starting, but if they overflow with the petcock off, the petcock is leaking through and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.
Cost: I don't know what $8K Canadian is worth in US$, and I can't see the bike or its documentation. But if motor was gone into, the bearings and seals replaced and the slingers cleaned, the bores honed and re-ringed, the valves done, and all the cosmetics are perfect, I think it could be worth $8K USD. If the motor was not gone into and slingers cleaned, and the miles are over 25K, then it is worth less. Or figure adding that cost to its price.
Value: Just because someone has $X in a restoration does not mean it is worth that. I have more in my R27 than it is worth. A person who restores and immediately sells will probably lose money. In time the value will increase to equal the cost of restoration, but not for years.
As to whether you should buy or wait, it may be years before you find another R69S in this condition this close to you where you can see it, if
ever. The alternative is to wait and travel to see supposedly good bikes (this can be time-consuming, costly and disappointing), or buy the next ratty bike that comes up in your area and restore it.
Vibration damper: This is a heavy metal disk, like a mini-flywheel, mounted on the front of the generator on the crankshaft. Between the disk and its shaft, there is a special rubber sleeve. The R69S turns more RPMs than the motor was designed for, and the crankshaft flexes. This would tear up the regular roller crankshaft bearings, so the ball bearings on an R69S are spherical instead of round and cost 4-5 times more than plain roller bearings. To further dampen the flexing crankshaft, that rubber mounted disk was put on the front. The
problem is - the rubber does not last long. As it disintegrates, rubber dust gets all over the timing area and could get into the points and stop you. And as the rubber leaves the sleeve, the metal disk becomes eccentric, causing terrible vibrations and beating the front bearing. In the 1960s BMW said to check the damper every few thousand miles, and if it could be turned by hand, it meant the rubber needed replacement. HA! In the 1970s and 1980s on my two R69Ss, the rubbers would only last a few hundred miles. Replacing a rubber was easy - just remove the timing cover and unscrew the damper and take it apart. But if you are on a trip, and you feel the damper vibrating, you wonder when the rubber will get the points, and worry about damaging the bearings. So you have to stop and either put in another rubber if you have one, or take off the damper and leave it off. And if you take the damper off, you are not supposed to use the high RPMs that give the R69S its extra power and speed.
Top end work: Find out exactly what was done. Were the jugs removed, measured for wear, honed, re-ringed? Were the valves replaced, seats, guides? Were no-lead valves and seats used?
Slingers: The bugaboo. Find out if the slingers were cleaned. This requires complete removal of the crankshaft every 25,000 miles. If postponed, unfiltered oil goes onto the big-end bearings of the conn rods and begins to wear them out. It is critical when buying pre-1970 BMWs to know their slinger status.
Leaking carbs: The petcocks should always be turned off when the motor is not running. The carbs will overflow when primed for starting, but if they overflow with the petcock off, the petcock is leaking through and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.
Cost: I don't know what $8K Canadian is worth in US$, and I can't see the bike or its documentation. But if motor was gone into, the bearings and seals replaced and the slingers cleaned, the bores honed and re-ringed, the valves done, and all the cosmetics are perfect, I think it could be worth $8K USD. If the motor was not gone into and slingers cleaned, and the miles are over 25K, then it is worth less. Or figure adding that cost to its price.
Value: Just because someone has $X in a restoration does not mean it is worth that. I have more in my R27 than it is worth. A person who restores and immediately sells will probably lose money. In time the value will increase to equal the cost of restoration, but not for years.
As to whether you should buy or wait, it may be years before you find another R69S in this condition this close to you where you can see it, if
ever. The alternative is to wait and travel to see supposedly good bikes (this can be time-consuming, costly and disappointing), or buy the next ratty bike that comes up in your area and restore it.
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Dave Thomas
Re: R69S / currency conversion
$8500 Canadian converts to $5679 US, which makes this bike look like a pretty good deal.
There is a very useful universal currency converter available at:
http://www.xe.net/ucc/
It's very handy for those big Huggett parts orders!
There is a very useful universal currency converter available at:
http://www.xe.net/ucc/
It's very handy for those big Huggett parts orders!
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Allan Canale
Re: R69S / currency conversion
Thank-you Gentlemen,
I am absolutely thrilled to see the level of attention and genuine assistance coming from so many people. It just makes one want to go out and acquire a BMW just to be part of the club! In any case I am having going to the garage that restored the bike to talk to the mechanic and get all the answers to my questions. I'll keep you posted. All the best.
I am absolutely thrilled to see the level of attention and genuine assistance coming from so many people. It just makes one want to go out and acquire a BMW just to be part of the club! In any case I am having going to the garage that restored the bike to talk to the mechanic and get all the answers to my questions. I'll keep you posted. All the best.